You know, I like to think that we all pretty much get along well here on the XenoMUCK, and for the most part I believe that to be true. However, occasions do tend to pop up when there are certain tensions and negative feelings running about, and being the PR Wizard I feel that it's my job to say something about it. Anyways, i'm getting to the point now. Recently, i've been informed that a certain plot has come under fire from a few select players, who claim it to be 'overly powerful' and 'elitist'. First of all, a plot could only be considered 'overly powerful' if it were to actually use it's power in a negative way that treats players unfairly and destroys RP opportunities (If anything, it creates more opportunities for RP), just having the potential to do so is not enough (And given the players involved in this plot, I can say with certainty that there is -zero- potential for something like that). Futhermore, i'd like to say the accusation of favorites being handed out to the people involved is complete bullshit. Originally, this plot had started out as something much smaller, and became what it is today due to the commitment and hard work of the RPers involved. Does anyone really honestly think that the wizards of the XenoMUCK would allow something like this to go on if they didn't fully trust the players involved not to abuse it? To those of you who complain about this plot, i'm sure you know the people involved with it, and i'm sure you know that those involved are respectable players who were the last anyone would think of abusing power. Also, to the claim that the players are elitist, give me a break, they're just as RP-starved as the rest of you. The only way i'd define someone as an elitist would be if they had perfectly IC reasons to RP with someone and refused to do so simply because they feel they are simply too good an RPer to waste their time with that player. As far as I know, this hasn't happened. Oh, and no one is going to be nuked for this either, if anyone was worrying about that, we don't try to limit free speech here. However, I would suggest to anyone who even -thinks- about trying to sabotage and harass this plot and it's players to forget about it, because that is a nukeable offense. So to recap, this plot has become the way it is because of the work the players has put into it, and i'll be damned if I allow a whiny group of players attempt to ruin a succesful plot out of jealousy again (Yes, this isn't the first time this has happened. If you don't know what i'm talking about then feel free to ask one of the older players about Khiea sometime. ^^). So basically, said whiners can bitch and moan about this plot all they want, but it isn't going anywhere. Don't like it? Then you're perfectly free to leave. Any other wizards or players are perfectly welcome to post on this topic, though annonymous flamers might as well not bother, it's not like I give damn what they have to say. Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this.

By Sirus on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 03:58 am:

Just a note that, while most of what I said previously stands, I was mistaken in the characterization of those who've voiced concern about this plot. I was given a false impression by one of them, and therefore assumed we had a situation similar to Khiea's plot a year or two ago. Like I said, almost all of my previous statement stands, except for my calling those who the post is mainly directed at to be jealous whiners, which has turned out to not be the case. Oh and it's okay if no one posts reponses here, I can understand the after seeing my incredible writing ability that no one would dare desecrate it with their inferior posts. (If this doesn't get responses posted, nothing will. ^^)

By Dominia on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 05:24 am:

*Applauds Sirus's post* Beautiful. ^_^ May I tag a lengthy additional note onto it? Well, here goes:

You know, its kind of funny.

Obviously, no one cares enough on this issue to officially state that they feel that something is out of sync on this game. Otherwise I'd be told who was so disgruntled. And, since this fact also states doesn't allowe me to point out the justifications for what's happened, obviously no one wants anything done about it.

So, whine away, darlings. ^_^ If you don't want the HeadWiz to know who you are out of fear or whatnot, then.. well... Live with it.

Because there is one thing I do not stand for on this game, and that is player harrassment. And goodness help you if this issue somehow turns into an expression of -that-. But I'm sure whomever is complaining is a decent human being(s) that wouldn't do something spiteful in any way, manner or form.

But let me do say this in the defence of large OC plotlines. And, since I asked the RPer, and she doesn't mind, I'm going to use Khiea's story as a lesson.

You see, this is how things go with OCs on the XenogearsMUCK. Because they're not in the game of Xenogears, they obviously start off as nobodies, regardless of what their history states. They have no social connections. They have no history of events/battles/social meetings to define them. They are, regardless of what they're applied for, nobodies.

Seems pretty grim, doesn't it? But here's what happens on the XenoMUCK.

These OCs go and take their characters and they meet people. They make connections with other players of all sorts, they RP scenes. These become the history of their characters, and eventually build as the character participates in and/or runs TPs.

In time, they evolve into completely new people, with a grand deal more influence and quirks than before.

Now, take someone like Khiea. She started as a 7 year old little girl. Ether gifted, fled from Aveh. That's it. But she signed on nearly constantly for the most of a year and a half, befriended nearly everyone on the game, and thus, when she got kidnapped by Krelian, it mattered to some people. Thus she had plot.

So, now Khi's physically 15 and runs a dreamworld. What happened?

Well, a lot of time. About 100 logs. Two (nearly three?) years of active RPing. And none of it was intentional. Things happened, things changed. And because Khiea proved herself as a capable RPer who did not run a huge risk of powergaming, she was given permission to run plots like the dream that otherwise would be considered 'too powerful'.

And did you know that Khiea has tried to kill her character various times on this game? (*Prods Khi. >_>* And you better never try again.)

Because people complained at her about how she was 'too powerful', 'hogging attention away from the people who -should- be in the game's focus', and so on.

And yet, do you realize that her plot, and others, weren't intentional developments, but rather were the end result of being influenced by the characters she met and reacted to in the game?

Now, a very similar thing happened with the Delta RPers. They started a plot that was rather reasonable and cute, and was not exactly what is currently running. They RPed devotedly for a very long time, made connections, earned trust OOCLy and ICly, and otherwise did things -right-. Situations, events, and everything have made them into what they are. Why? Because of time and effort. They didn't start off as the all-influencing mass they are now. They worked slowly up to it.

Did they get this plot because I like them? Hell no. Sirus has a rather overpowered plot and no one would accuse me of being Sirus's best friend. They got this plot because that is how RP went, that is how it ended up developing them. And because they proved themselves as capable of using that power, due to extencive time and effort put into making the best out of their characters and this world.

The Deltas have done an extraordinary amount of good for this game in their nearly two years on it.

And if you feel upset about this, then that's charming. You're entitled to your opinion. But if you in any way harrass, upset, or attempt to mess up the plot or the RPers, then actions will be taken against you.

Not because they're my friends, but because open harrassment is NOT welcome on the XenogearsMUCK. I'd do the same thing were someone bashing you into the ground just for existing.

If you want this sort of a plot and this sort of power, go out and RP for several active months and see how things go. It'll evolve into something pretty, I swear. And if you do it right, no one will protest if it turns into something dramatic and powerful as well.

See, I didn't even have to justify myself, as no formal complaint was given. But you know what? I'm feeling nice.

So. That's pretty much it. Don't complain. If you want this sort of power, go out and earn it.

No one's stopping you.

By Domi on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 05:41 pm:

Short addendum, since I wrote the above when I was REALLY TIRED. I didn't mean to insinuate that the Deltas are even currently an 'all influencing mass' as far as the game goes. You'd be surprised at how little they do with the influence they have. (Note term: Influence, not power. By what standards most of you have for 'power', they don't have much of it--Their abilities are nearly purely socially used, as far as I've seen.) Which is exactly why they were entrusted with it in the first place.

Its one of those.. Greatest powers being the lack of a need to ever use it. Or something. Forgive that all, I'm going to nap now. (X_x)

By Ryukumu on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 11:29 pm:

I agree with Domi in that OCs get what they put into it. Take my character for example: Ryukumu was originally a nobody from Lahan. He left Lahan for the simple reason that he got bored. How 'nobody' is that?

A couple or so years down the road, Ryukumu has become an accomplished pilot, a pretty good fighter, a well-known smartass (IC and ESPECIALLY OOC), and has gotten mixed up in so much stuff that he knows more about the Gazel's plans then many MCs.

Did this happen overnight? Heck no! Progress takes time. And I see nothing wrong with being rewarded for a helluva lot of work.

I don't know much about this Delta plot, but it has been described to me by the person in question as 'OCs unfairly ruling the MUCK and seeing how Domi is on their side can do whaever the hell they want'. I have heard the names of some of the Delta players, and I know some of them OOCly well enough to know that they're intelligent people who wouldn't try something so bastardly. As far as the IC aspects, even if they DO run things behind the scenes, what else is new? In Xenogears, there was ALWAYS a manipulator controlling the world behind the scenes. Who is to say that the reincarnation of XG into the Xenogears MUCK shouldn't do the same, and allow hard-working OCs to play with authority? I see nothing wrong with this.

To the person in question who is actively bad-mouthing the Delta situation: Choose your enemies wisely. I am not one of them, but be very careful, as you are treading on thin ice.

By Sigurd on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 12:16 am:

I have a response for this. I'll post it later tonight since I'm in class right now. I would just like people to please note the generalizations are a bit too negative for the opinions that it covers.

No one's bad mouthing the Deltas, just questioning. At least, if they are -badmouthing- the Deltas, I'm not aware of it, and don't support it.

But I'll rant later. *pwoofles back to class*

By Dominia on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 12:55 am:

Well, don't look at me. All I -can- do is generalize, since this entire issue has been very carefully kept out of my focus.

And I can understand why. I realize that I'm not the PR Wizard (goodness knows there's a reason I've got so many of them), and that there are people who don't trust me to act fairly in this situation. Yes, that's annoying, me being the HeadWiz. But you know what? I know that not everyone likes me. I expect it. So this is fine.

But because I only know a very vague realm of what's going on (So far a friend of a friend has told me stuff.. And this debate here. And a friend of a friend of a friend last night. Hmm. Fun.), I can only generalize.

I'm not accusing here. I'm just saying that, -if-this turns into a case of player harassment or TP tampering, or is horrible enough to turn into an issue of spite, then I should give out warnings now. I'm not saying that they -are- going to happen--I'm stating a 'just in case' sort of thing.

But as long as I'm out of this debate, there's not much I can do. But, as the Head Wizard, I feel I'm obligated to at least put in a few of my own words of warning and caution just in case. And if they're not applicable, then I appologize. I at least have made -some- point, and perhaps inspired someone to not do something that actually does relate to what I said in the future.

So see, I'm giving out suggestions and guessing on what things to justify and critique.

But if they're questioning, that's fine. But I'll put in this much: I know that the wordy, elaborate description of the Deltas is confusing and intimidating. It also gives impressions of all-mighty power that aren't as they sound. Several people have been confused by them and have mistook them for something entirely different.

The Deltas are not controlling everything in the world--They're plotting in the background, which is something very few other players do. They certainly keep tabs on a lot of things. But controlling -everything-? There's only one Delta in any form of authority, and taht's Luka. And Luka can't do anything with Solaris without dealing with the other two branches of government. -All- she has done that is relevant to the entire flow of the world plot is starting the Aveh-Solaris peace that still exists to this day.

Certainly, there is a Delta in charge of Ethos and a high ranking Delta Kislevi officer. But this is only because these ranks needed to be filled and otherwise would be empty. These are consiquential roles, and not even ones that people really consider (I've never heard anyone nag at how Erine is in Ethos--Most people don't even realize she exists, much less focus on the Ethos HQ. (X_x))

Their powers are strictly social. I have not seen one yet enter a battle seriously. They have no physical power, and they just plot in the background. And if it unnerves you to know that you might be some pawn in some other plot.. Did you ever realize that that's all anyone, -anywhere- is doing in Xenogears? (X_X)

They're influencial, but they're not unreasonably so. As I said before, by the standards that most of you cast, were you to fully understand the plot, you'd realize they don't fit your standards of overpowered. All they have done on this game is promote other TPs, try to get things working for other people.. They've worked to increase communications between groups of people, have done their -darndest- to appease several groups at once... They've done nothing but good for this game.

Unless there's a reason to complain about them? Because if this is just 'being upset because they exist', then that's even more aimless. (>_<)

But once again, I'm stumbling in the dark, aren't I? But remember: If you look at the facts, several people run large plots or have organizations on the game that are significant that I am not friends with or even approve of. Just because one or two TPs out of a dozen happen to involve my friends doesn't meant that there's some massive conspiracy working against you.

So. Those are my responses to my guesses on what to say. (X_X)

By Luka on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 01:51 am:

And, as a Delta, I probably should say something right now.

I am head of plot for this for at least five people, counting myself. As a rule, I generally don't like just throwing open the entire explanation of -any- plot to the whole world. With a few exceptions, people rarely do that for -me-, and I don't insist that anyone else explain every inch of their personal plots and histories so that I can be appeased without -working to understand what is going on.-

People who know me know that I do not hand out explanations on plates when there has been little effort made to comprehend them in the first place. A few other people have actively sought to figure out what is going on, and they know that further hints or discussions exist. No one else seems to have cared--until now, when they realized that hey, just maybe someone's out there doing things quietly without asking for everyone's eyes to be focused on them while they do it.

Yes, I understand that I sound very bitter at this moment. However, this started, again, as a personal plot. And it has not been one since even a month after its inception. The Deltas exist for nothing more than to fill in the holes for others and to get things done. And right now, that bitterness comes from the fact that I do not log on the Muck for enjoyment but as a job, and I have not done this in over a year. Neither have the other players. We do not have fun. We work. And we get, largely, a lot of problems for it anyway and very little personal fun. Thank you.

And, if people have honest confusion with this which is why they are having problems, I intend to put up a very simplified explanation tomorrow. Hopefully that will satisfy you all, whoever you are.
And--someone just brought up a comparison with a manga, actually, which is disturbing because said manga was a) not even started when I first sat down with the other players to develop the Deltas, and b) said manga has absolutely no comparison with the plot, which really makes me wonder how much exactly that manga's been read. For heaven's sake, give me and everyone else enough credit to have at least semi-original ideas. >
Now I am going to go back and take my pain meds and have some tea. Thank you.

By Brin on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 01:52 am:

Hm.

The basic crux of the matter as I see it, being firmly seated on the fence here, is that people don't see their potential for social status on the game as being equal to some other people, who may or may not be running ongoing plot, or be deltas or be just good, active roleplayers. They see people being in positions of IC power, drawing correlations between their social standing IC and OOC, and cry shenannigans because they don't seem to be automatically progressing to equally high status? Am I correct?

If I am, then that is complete arse. Here's how.

There is a world. The world needs to be populated by people. Some people are leaders, philosophers, some people are unsurpassed fighters, some people are talented in other ways. To play a fishmonger for your entire MUCKly life would be not fun at all. So, most OCs want to progress, to build up new plots around themselves, and this is fantastic. The downside to this, of course, is that not everyone can be the greatest fighter ever known, or empress of solaris, or the general of Gebler, or what-have-you. MCs have it prescribed for them to an extent, but that is easily changed (i.e. Rico is currently back in jail, and is working for Kislev and Shevat, when he could be easily squishing some gebler ass. Not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but it seemed like the best example). The main source of tension is that some people would believe that it is possible for any OC to become very, very powerful. This is simply not true.

This is just my take, but people should be happy to RP for its sake, be they the ultimate supertwink weather-controlling wolf-bart, or a lowly short-order cook. After all, it is a game. It does not matter. Effort brings its reward, and honestly, if someone feels they're deliberately being denied RP opportunities, they should let Sirus know.

That's all from my rant advisor. Good day.

By Joseph on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 03:14 am:

Just a minor point--

As a witness to what the REAL complaints are, and maker of a few of them, I'd just like to say that none of the issues we touched on and the issues the wizzes have spoken so eloquently on mesh at any point. Kind of sad, really, but that's what happen when people write long, impassioned posts about things they wern't arround to witness.

What people were griping about was not the delta RP, but the fact that nothing ever happens, the plot advancing imperceptably, if at all. The delta RP was of secondary importance, and I don't think Khiea was mentioned at all. I wasn't aware that anyone had any problems with her, and they certainly wern't voiced at the cruicial moment. The Delta RP was mentioned, as some people think that plot's going on there that wasn't being revealed OOCly. As no one on at that point knew much of everything, you got the usual rumors that show up in ignorance, and even those didn't match the scope of Sirus's or Dominia's ideal of a horrible accusation.

The news got distorted in telling to a third party, and then another third party, and then Sirus, who was calmed down afterwards, but then everyone else read Sirus's post, assuming that it was a bad as he thought it was (at the time) compounded with the fact that all he said in the remissive was that the people talking wern't small, petty jerks.

The only problem here is that the deltas beleive themselves the most hated group alive now, dispite the fact that they're not.

Apparently this has caused a lot of grief. As the person on the MUCK most prone to griping about the least damn thing, I'd like to be the one to say that the Delta TP is not only non offensive, it is of little or no importance.

Time to turn this mountain back into the damn molehill.

Joseph Richardson, voice of sanity.

By Carthan/Asher on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 03:30 am:

How can I put this easily...I'm sorry.
It's my fault that this mess popped up.

I'll explain, don't worry.
Some time ago, I had frequently RPed with Luka. I considered her a very good friend at the time. Since then, I feel like I've signifigantly wrecked that several times over. I heard all the wonderfully detailed things about her character, and wondered where she got it all from. I checked out the pictures of her, Senchei, Har, Miriam, all people I knew by at least name, when I first looked at the wonderland webpage. I went to their section about the MUCK, and started reading, trying to get some insight, possibly. I read, and read, and I didn't fully understand it all. I didn't, up until tonight. To what I was reading, it all looked like some kind of 'invasion of the soul snatchers.' It kept getting more and more confusing as I read. Luka, I remembered, had told me something about a private plot, and while I kept trying to find information, no one would tell me. I began feeling an insatiable curiosity for this plot. It was so well hidden, so mysterious. Surely there had to be a reason. I kept reading, and finally, I seemed to have figured it out. The Seraphs, how did they figure into this? It all seemed sinister now, my understanding so terribly flawed. Getting some people together, I started working on investigating the Delta idea further. I ranted and raved to some people, though I tried to keep it focused to those people I spoke to. 6, in all. Four co-conspirators, and two wizards. Don't blame any of them for this, though. The misinformation train starts here, if you need someone to blame, put it on my head.
I didn't understand any of it well enough, but I kept wanting to know more. It was such a deep plot, so thorough, so well hidden, I just -had- to know more.
And this ended up happening. Let me assure you of this: I never wanted this. I hate hurting people, especially those I consider friends. That...that completely wrenches the heart of who I believe myself to be from me and crushes it. Those of you who I have hurt in doing this, please, please accept my deepest apologies. I don't expect forgiveness. I made a mistake, a small one, in giving in to my curiosity. As a result, I caused this problem, a large one. And as a result I've hurt some people on this game very much, people who I really do care about despite my actions.
Heh. My hands are shaking. Figures, I'm crying so I'm not exactly stable right now. Take me under, whenever you want. Yell and scream at me. Be mad. You deserve it. I've done something terrible and if you really want to hurt anyone or be mad at someone who's earned it, do it to me, not anyone else.
Once again, I apologize. Please, no one else needs to get mad here, at the deltas, the wizards, even the other players I worked with. Be mad at me, and then forget about it, so you all can have fun here again. Good night, and again, I am truly, truly sorry.