Hey there, XenoMUCKers. ^_^ Yes, yes, Dominia is back from her little vacation. And, to maintain that I don't go and kill myself -again-... I'm pondering changing how things run around here.

I've shouldered all the work for 3 years. I figure that I have the right to break it up a teensy bit. Anyway!

The first thought that came to mind was a TP Wizard. Now, I thought about this for a while and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't a very good idea--I pretty much couldn't come up with a single person for it.. And then I wondered if it really even needed Wizard Status.

So, well, this idea came up instead:

In order to make TP Management more efficient and (if you are one of those unhappy people who believes this is so) fairer, does anyone think that a 'TP Council' sort of group would work better?

The idea is this: Get together the most/more active characters on the game. Throw a TP at -all- of them and let people juggle it, suggest things, add/subtract things, plan things and so on.

To avoid prejudice and to help the game the most, ideally this will include people from influence of all the groups in the world--The high up and active Solarians, people from the Ygg, so-on-so on.

This also allows pretty much everyone to have an idea of what is/could be going on in the world, and lets everyone else plan around it.

Now, I'm not sure of the specifics, really, because this idea has been in my mind for all of 10 minutes. ^_^; But if anyone thinks it's worth a try, then we can plan something like this--We can map out all the groups in the world and give them some place (like a message board or whatnot) where ideas can be suggested and they can all comment on it/plan around it...

..And that'd take the place of my exclusive TP management. ^^ I -would- be on this council, so don't you think that this is the beginning of the end, but it pretty much says that the players will have a say in what happens/doesn't happen.

So, does anyone think this is worth a try?

By Bart on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 07:06 pm:

Sounds good to me. I think it'll work fine, especially with one of each group in the world. This way, noone can get screwed and they don't know it.

By Brighton on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 08:36 pm:

It sounds good to me, as well. To tell ya the truth, I was kind of wanting to try that out ElseMUSH, but, unfortunately, the MUSH kinda closed down before I could get it rolling. I really do think that this is the right course of action for making TPs work, though, especially ones with a very large scope. Well, that's my $0.02.

By Rico on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 01:35 am:

It's definitely worth a try, for one or two TPs on a trial basis. Of course, the suggester of TPs shoud be included in some way, temporarily, to add clarification to it. But yeah, go for it ^^.

By Ryukumu/Ramsus on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 01:46 am:

Sounds great! I was thinking of getting something like this for the Virus TP, as it's a TP on a global scale. I'd like to volunteer to be in on this, if you'll have me.

By Lily/Harmony on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 03:26 am:

I think this would be a great idea to make sure that everyone is included in the formation of a TP. Of course with that in mind, you also must make sure that you don't pick a person for a group that doesn't truly speak for the group.

By Rico on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 05:47 am:

True. Case in point would be Kislev, whre in theory, Yasha might be in charge, but in practice, Victor, Harmony, or Rico at a stretch might. Hm.

By Dominia on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 06:30 pm:

Pardon the lengthy babble following. ^^

This is a good point--It's also something that came up when I was juggling ideas around for how to do this. It came down, pretty much, to the debate of High Ranking characters vs. Most Active characters taking the council roles. Obviously, Most Active needs to win out over IC Rank, but at the same time, we have to be careful that no one at the theoretical 'bottom of the totem pole' ends up with complete lording OOC duties over a group. (This is misrepresentation of the group as much as having an idle, detached leader doing it.) Which isn't to say I'm being rank-prejudiced at all--This just means that the council members will be representing a -group-, and will have to keep in touch with all of them somehow.

One of the comments I was given on this is that the council has to be kept small, otherwise it'll get so cluttered with people debating that we wont get a single thing done. I'd say we need about a maximum of 10 people.. Any more and things'll get dirty.

In theory, this is a good thing, though--It encourages people to talk with the other people in their group/kingdom/faction/whatever you feel like calling it. Whomever the council member for that group is will be required to keep the other people in their group up to date on what's going on, and will be representing their groups views and requests...

Although it'd be a blatant, dirty lie to think that people wont throw their personal opinions in, either. That's not necessarily bad, I think.

Anyway. So we'd have a group of people who would talk on a public forum (Although I'd prefer one where the posting is limited to 'members and guests'.. So the council members get to do the postings and everyone else just gets to comment/respond for the sake of sanity)... And anyone could read in on it and comment on it, but ultimately the council members would get to decide what goes and what doesn't.

Ideally, their jobs wouldn't be a pass/failing of TPs, but a system in which they critique. Trying to add things/remove things/change things until everything works out neatly and to everyone's appreciation.

Everyone seems to be pretty keen on the idea so far. ^^ Wanna give it a trial run then, maybe? If it works, it works, if it doesn't then at least we've learned something.

Although it's going to be difficult assinging people...
For example, the ideal for Solaris would be some selection of Krelian, the Gazel, Ramsus or Luka, but of those, only Ramsus is currently reliably active. There's also myself.. And while Domi has not much IC power, I'm a Wizard, so... ^^;; I have to be there. Then again, I'm also Margie. *Stands up for the rights of her and er.. the only other Nisanite she's aware of*

Sirus ought to be there, too, even if it's just for moderating reasons. (His job is to deal with problems, after all.)

Kislev.. I think I better just let you decide on your own representative, since I know basically nothing on the hierarchy the characters there have set up, and I know we're minus a Kaiser.

The Ygg has Bart, so that's easy enough... But Aveh's more tricky. In fact, Aveh in general has so many groups and so many people that some subdivision within it is likely necessary. For example, GA-GS deserves representation.

Shevat doesn't have Zephyr, but it does have Yui. And taking she organized the putting together of an entire Shevvite plot yesterday on the fly, I trust that'd be a moderately good choice. O_O

The one thing I want to avoid, however, is 'factionizing' the game. More unity in groups is certainly a good thing, but I also don't want anyone to think that just because they're not in a group, they don't get a say on how things go. This is why I'd like to have an open forum.. And perhaps can leave a few token places open in the council for players who are just very active and very productive, and so on.

But on the same note, I don't want it to get too large, either.

...Delicate balance to maintain, isn't it?

By Billy on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 12:39 am:

You could make a separate, restricted channel for the 'council', once it's set up, which would fix communication things. Or, if everyone can't be on at the same time, make a restricted board. If Sirus is willing, he can moderate whichever medium is chosen.

By Ramsus on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 01:04 am:

HA HA HA HA!!! I'm the only active uber-important Solarian!! BWHA HA HA HA HA!

*clears throat* Nevermind.

By Sirus on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 01:19 am:

*looks up from pile of schoolwork* Eh, moderate? Sure, just tell me what you folks decide on and i'll mod it faster than a...erm...something! Brain overload! *fizzes out and sinks back into ocean of homework*

By Ryoji on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 10:20 pm:

Sounds like a good idea to me! And speaking of Nisanites, theoretically, anyone who's character has grown up their whole life in Shevat would probably be at -least- acquainted with the religion, if not a full blown Nisanite--seeing as the only school in Shevat is a Nisan school...unless their character were home schooled.

By Bart on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 11:14 pm:

Hmmm...to give everyone an equal say, YET have a council to work with.

I know this is a long shot, but the 'open forum' gave me an idea. Why not have a forum on this board SPECIFICALLY for TP discussion? Though the only problem is that TPs that are wanted to be kept as a surprise until their unveiling to the general MUCK population (The Dark Ygg was one of these cases) will have a big problem with this.

But eh, they've gotta be discussed somehow, and with a forum the only people who don't have a say will be the ones who choose not to say anything :P.

Heck, it could even be used for announcing validated TPs, dates for plot important scenes as well as discussing TP ideas.

As I said, it's a long shot, but I think it might work...

By Dominia on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 11:40 pm:

Hm, that's an interesting idea... And it's one that I threw around for a little while but didn't really return to, so.. Well, let me think aloud for a little while here.

An open forum would be workable, yes, but the problem here is that we -do- need a solid 'council' of some sort. Simply because we can't just have it left up to 'the entire game votes'--That'd take far too much time, would throw the odds in the favor of countries with more people, would be totally based on how active people are instead of what's best for the IC situation, etc.

On the same note, I really want a way for anyone to be able to post their opinions, too.

This is even -more- of a long shot, and quite a pain in the ass, but maybe a public/private split could work? We could have a channel on the game itself where the council members, and just them, could talk about their ideas, the results of which get thrown up on a special TP board where everyone can read/comment/otherwise have their say.

That way, everyone gets to have a say, but there's still a place where the council members can stand alone and cast their opinions on what goes/what doesn't.

I guess people could post TP outlines and whatnot on the TP Board, too.

Private plots are hard to work with in general.. But they could just be kept from the public forum. I would hope that anyone we put on the council would be, you know, clever enough not to tell everyone things they shouldn't?

Just thoughts. ^_^

By Bart on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 11:46 pm:

You've just shot down my hopes and dreams, killed everyone in my village, decimated my life in general. I wish you were dead...CURSE YOU, SEYMOUR! CURSE YOUR BLACK HEART, AND YOUR ABILITY TO BARTER FOR HUNNY JARS!

Oops, my mind is elsewhere.

Council + TP Board would r0x0rz the house. How would it be a pain in the ass? Just the setting up of the channel?

By Domi on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 11:56 pm:

*Laughs!* It's just getting a little complicated. But two parts to this shouldn't make it too bad, right?

If everyone wants to give it a go, then I'd like to kindly ask the player base to tell me who you'd like on the council. ^_^ I really don't know who all of you believes will represent your groups the best, or who you feel needs to be represented.. And that's the last big hurdle before we can try this.

However, if I may, here are my personal suggestions:

Dominia and Sirus are givens. But as per groups...

Solaris: Ramsus seems to be the most active/most reliable of the higher up Solarians.
Shevat: Yui or Kaori? There's no Zephyr, but both of these RPers are active and friendly.

Aveh: I'm not sure what representation is needed. But the following parts of it I'd like to see in the council:
Yggdrasil: Bart seems a fair shot on this one.
GA-GS: Depends on who wants to do it. ^^; Is Joseph interested at all?

Nisan has very few followers, and since I'm Margie, I think that covers it.. I'm not aware that Aquavy has much of a need for representation, being nearly without people.

Kislev needs someone, but that has to be decided by you all, not me.

So, please, suggest away. ^_^

By Ashton/Vance on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 01:01 am:

Well... Billy or Brin could be a good representative for Aquavy. I'm not sure about Kislev, though. I'm actually more concerned about another matter. As you can tell, I RP generally worthless characters on the global scale of things. I'm not sure if this means that I don't really have a say in much. I just really don't know what kind of job I will have, (if any). Who knows? Maybe I can represent my fellow worthless characters?

By Gades on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 01:06 am:

I would be willing to represent us fine feathered members of the Rogue Ethos...even though we are few we have the power of many...

By Domi on Thursday, January 24, 2002 - 01:50 am:

Well, for one, we can't have -every- little something having a place on the council.. And my only fear about the Rogue Ethos is that they're a temporary TP. They're not going to be around forever, and thus... Well, what happens when they're gone to any council member attached?

And I don't really want 'nonattached' characters getting places on the council, just because... Well, I really want to avoid factioning, but it's not like all of the 'people not with a country' are a solid group that talks with each other all the time and will keep in close touch and share their opinions.

Which is why I guess some groups will be expressed only through their opinions posted on the TP Board.

Or you can yank a council member already there to do the chatting for you, if you have a really important opinion.

I just don't want this to get too big. O_O

Although if everyone feels it necessary for people like the R-Ethos to have representation, or the 'common man' to -try- to have one, then that's the will of the players. ^^; Those are my worries, though.

By Duran on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 01:10 am:

Either Kale, Joseph, or I can be in the GA-GS section of the Council, you're probably better off asking Kale and Joseph instead of me, because I'm not on that much...

By Lily/Harmony on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 03:42 am:

I suggest that Victor holds the spot for Kislev. He is on alot and has the same rank ICly as Yasha, so it make perfect sense to me.